Throughout the year, I observe questions from college students. This really shouldn’t be a surprise since I work with college students… and they adore me (sarcasm anyone??). This is the fifth installment of the semi-annual series of posts of questions from students with my responses. Here is another question posed by a student; and then my response.
STUDENT:
Well I hope all is well and the new year is beginning off right. I just had a question for you. I am beginning to look into seminaries and grad programs to begin next Spring, after my graduation in December. I am going to DBU to look at a master’s in Christian education with a student ministry emphasis in three weeks , taking a look at DTS, and Southwestern as well in the next few months. I was sitting down with a religion and ministry professor here at Baylor yesterday and he thought it would be best for me to ask some current pastors who are involved with student ministry this question: If you were to go into the ministry today after graduating with your undergraduate degree, which path would you take? Things change over time so I ask you to view as 2009 and not your personal past, though many have said they would do the same all over again. So that is the question that I am asking around and hopefully, if you have a moment, you can help me out with that and answer that question. I am just struggling with trying to figure out should I do Christian Education with Student Ministry or get my MDIV, go straight through seminary, try to do a small amount of hours and work in a church at the same time. Also, if I were to go to DBU to get my master’s, do you think since I did not go to “seminary”, it would hinder me from getting a job in certain churches?
I know this is a lot, but I would appreciate your input as I respect your thoughts and guidance. Hopefully you will get a chance to reply. Won’t see yah Sunday, I have to work the front desk!
MY RESPONSE:
Okay – you asked a couple of questions; all of which I think are really good and timely for those thinking about Seminary, or job, or church work, etc. So, I’ll address them as they came (which was your stream of thought):
If you were to go into the ministry today after graduating with your undergraduate degree, which path would you take? Things change over time so I ask you to view as 2009 and not your personal past, though many have said they would do the same all over again.
I would do it the same way. Haha. I had to say that.
There is no doubt the value and return for receiving a degree from really ANY Masters program. The discipline it requires, the time and intentionality it takes to complete a degree that goes beyond your undergrad is invaluable. There are some that are fully capable of accomplishing their own theological understanding without the need of seminary education; for me, while I had a great undergrad education in religion (thanks Dr. Gary Gramling) there were some serious gaps in my full grasp and ability to read, learn, and comprehend theology.
So for me, I was in dyer need of further education. Knowing that I was called to some type of pastoral ministry (currently serving as College Pastor) I knew I couldn’t ride the coattails of my youth group theological training, nor my undergrad either.
Taking that into consideration, I believe if presented with what I know now, would I go back in the same process – it is a resounding yes. My reason? It was in Seminary that I was introduced more completely to Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, Owen, and Jonathan Edwards. I’m not sure I would have the same enthusiasm for these men of faith otherwise.
Now, there is always the exception. There are some who are able on their own to be good students and stewards of theology, in Greek and Hebrew, and to quote Edwards rather than just Piper (or God help us McLaren). But that person is rare. I wasn’t that person. I needed somebody to push me because I’m lazy. From my standpoint – I’m better for seminary than for not doing it.
Should I do Christian Education with Student Ministry or get my MDIV?
It’s always my recommendation that if you were committed to obtaining your Masters from the get go, I would take the time and get your MDIV. EVEN IF YOU’RE “JUST” GOING TO DO STUDENT MINISTRY (yes, I yelled that). Why? Look… students will need you to be deep. They don’t need cute games and pies in the face, nor do they need to be able to draw with crayons. THEY NEED YOU TO BE DEEP. Depth is what they need, its what you need, its what all faithful guys in ministry need. So, I would get the MDIV man – it’ll be more valuable than anything, in my opinion.
(should I) go straight through seminary, try to do a small amount of hours and work in a church at the same time?
This is tough. I did all three. I started by tackling as many hours as possible, studied overseas in Oxford, took summer/winter courses, online courses all so that I could get out fast and begin applying it all. Because of the call that was/is within me I couldn’t help but serve somewhere… I began by just being a Sunday School teacher of 8th grade boys – it was tough, but I did it faithfully. After a few months they (church) asked me to be an Intern. So I was taking full hours along with working at a church.
Then I was called to a church full time to do collegiate work and thus took a small amount of hours. This became very difficult and my grades suffered for it. I also found myself enjoying working in the church more than I did seminary. I almost quit seminary at that point – but because of some investments by individuals in my education, I pressed on.
All in all, I don’t regret any of it – but I think doing seminary while also with a church-related job is beneficial if you’re able to not have a heavy load of responsibility (meaning: don’t be “the guy” in charge, learn from someone along the way).
Also, if I were to go to DBU to get my master’s, do you think since I did not go to “seminary”, it would hinder me from getting a job in certain churches?
I can’ really say either way. I would hope that whatever church you’re going to/being interviewed by they’d consider your seminary education but vet your theology and philosophy of ministry more. How sad it is that some guys who have seminary degrees but don’t have a clue as to essential theology nor how to study the Scriptures.
I hope this helps. Keep me posted as to what you decide to do. We’ll see you Sunday.
Enjoy.